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When Futures has real sustainable utility it will be reddit to see what the detractors futures then. I hate wall street bankers. If you have reddit for the remaining BTC, see here for more info. My opinion is bitcoin it siphons money away from BTC. The CME Group, arguably the world's most liquid trading exchange, will trading listing bitcoin futures within days. Until that happens, it doesn't do anything.
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If you believe in bitoin hodl is actually very easy. They would have to buy it before they sell it on Gemini. Submit a new text post. Look at the silver market. You are all the early adopters, and you are about to find out just what that means.
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You can trading use Bitcoin Core as a very secure Bitcoin wallet. Why does the price of btc drop if they bitcoin selling the same amount they trading initially? CBOE is kinda irrelevant in terms of contract sizing and general market share but they're trying to capture the crypto futures market by jumping futures gun on CME. A meme is defined by spreading. Reddit little relevant story I just remember. It's reddit like if you had a lot of Reebok futures to sell, it never hurts to have additional stores selling them.
Bitcoin futures trading reddit
I really appreciate, i wish i could you you gold, but i cant: And as far as I'm concerned we're all noobs. My opinion - and of course never take anyone's opinion - is buy and hold and ignore. Thank you - Can i still ask which coins have you invested in and coin advice - Feel free to PM me. My investments in private, but I hold some bitcoin.
I'm not really in the habit of giving advice but I'm comfortable in recommending people buy as much bitcoin as they are willing to risk and hold it for a long period of time. I think you mean Etherium? The reason to hold a specific currency is because you have researched it and believe in it. Good post above about futures trading. Glad to see more knowledgeable investors around these parts. Also, there should be more profanity in textbooks - it would make learning far more interesting.
People are just betting on the price, not actually taking a direct stake in bitcoin. By the rules of the Options Clearance Corporation by whose rules this is governed the market making body in this case the CBOE has to have enough liquidity to cover outstanding contracts.
That means that if they're stuck bag holding because the price went up and not enough people sold and lots of people bought and that means they owe more money than they have that they'd have to find a way to make more money to pay off. It's all cash settled.
The easiest way to ensure they have all the liquidity they need? If they don't have the cash, just deliver the coin itself. Or, they can sell the coin as it's an asset with a 1: I haven't read their agreement with the OCC but I am sure they have to hold a certain amount of bitcoin for exactly this purpose, or the exchanges they're working with keep enough for them, etc. Call me when you can post margin in BTC: Anyway, have a nice day. How much money will be poured into short positions by institutions hoping to get a cheaper entry point, versus how much betting on a continuation of this leg up?
I'm ashamed to say I used to read his books and watch Mad Money everyday. Didn't know he was so closed minded. Dude's smart, he's more than entitled to his opinion.
Just because he happened to be wrong about Bitcoin doesn't mean that you should invalidate everything he says. He's not known for backing high risk or highly speculative investments and from his view that's exactly what Bitcoin is. Can't fault him for not becoming a crypto evangelist. Smart people saw it in Jim is about as accurate as guessing. His lack of understanding on Bitcoin and trolling by calling his dog Mr. He could try to understand it and be 'the guy' who knows his stuff as far as msm is concerned, but he'd rather unintelligently bash it because it doesn't fit the model he knows.
His target market is much more risk averse than the somethings you see pouring in. That's a really good point. I'm not suggesting he recommend it, just be clearer about what it is and does Do you think Jamie Dimon will ever eat his words and become a buyer? His own daughter owns it and you just know she's going to skewer him about her gains over the holidays. These guys don't seem to care much after the quarter closes. I would imagine he just shrugs it off as untested at the time, but something..
I would love to see Lloyd Blankfein say something positive about Bitcoin. He's seemed to be really thoughtful in his responses so far. We could all be wrong and this thing could go to zero, but each day it doesn't that chance becomes smaller. When Bitcoin has real sustainable utility it will be interesting to see what the detractors say then. The arguments are getting thin.
Until that happens, it doesn't do anything. Then there could be actual utility. Nah, the individual investors will need a buyout, and you know how the government loves to bailout its own taxpaying citizens. Lol jk taxpayers gfy. Can we also talk about this Lady? This message was created by a bot. Where ahahaha hoe hard is it to research something. That's like saying gold will need to be bailed out. BTC has been hanging around for days now.
Motherfucker ended the show. Considering the massive spike up to 17k this is kind of a 'soft' correction. Only the future can tell, but the fact that it didn't drop after the big jump is great news. I feel like I have a pretty good "feel" for BTC's behavior i. I would also point out that a week or so ago the price did the same thing right before CBOE started offering it.
It was like everyone was just holding their breath to see what happened after CBOE started offering BTC futures, and there was a period of a few days where there was very little big action. The only market where a 3x increase in one month followed by a week of stagnation is considered dead. That's what they said in when stocks felt from their insane valuation: Nothing to do with people taking their benefits, rise of interest rates, money going out of market to pay back debts or with a bursting bubble.
This is good for Bitcoin. It was more being overdramatic. I really dont care if It goes up slowly or quick as long as It doesnt go down. Banks are going to start trying to get their piece of the pie through transaction fees. Bitcoin is so heavily traded right now so they're trying to find a way into the market. Adding to the "bitcoin cash" vs. Yeah you're right and it's going to cause heaps of confusion.
In finance the cash market for a product whether it be equities, fixed income or currencies is the market where the underlying asset you are exchanging is the product itself. An alternative would be if the underlying is a derivative i. Watch what happens when your top shelf marketing strategy is brand confusion.
There are going to be soo many angry ex-Bcash users. Or they'll just become attached to the cause and become shills because they want the ratio to go up before they gtfo.
I'd definitely sell immediately and get onto Bitcoin and be super shitty with Bcash from that point forward. How do y'all think this news will impact the BTC price? Legitimizes Bitcoin as an entirely new asset, further removing it from the "drug money for nerds" stereotype. Though it obviously doesn't guarantee any short term price increases, this is good for Bitcoin TM.
ETF is when grandma or other older person can buy bitty coins for her k. It's one of the highest bars for mainstream adoption as a store of value. It's been around since May and is not listed on a major exchange, trading instead in the "pink sheets" or the over-the-counter market. The trust offers investors a rare chance to invest in digital currency without actually have to buy bitcoins. However, the failure to replicate the price the way, say, the SPDR Gold Shares ETF accurately tracks the metal, is a problem that became especially acute earlier this year.
Grayscale sought in January to make the trust a full-fledged ETF and was restricted from creating new shares. They could easily invest in an etf but wouldn't touch that trust with a 10 ft pole.
Something being available through an ETF does not at all mean it's a good store of value. Tax implications, not wanting to decrease privacy of holdings, issues with off-ramping large amounts of fiat, less trust in exchanges than futures brokers and probably a ton of other reasons. This is more exposure, but it's cash settled therefore it should have a negligible impact on the price. In the long run it will increase market confidence and decrease volatility. It won't directly affect the price but more publicity will result in a higher demand and a higher price.
It also gives bitcoin more credibility. Expect an unprecedented increase in value in the days to come, possibly K. My opinion is that it siphons money away from BTC. True, it ligitimizes bitcoin as an over-the-counter investment Overall very positive but they under our thumb and not vice versa. We dictate the price and they chase us for the bread crumbs.
Bitcoin is going to go up in price and continue to inflate. The public knows about this but generally don't understand it. The banks understand money and sense Bitcoin will make them richer.
It is my understanding that GBTC was just permitted to issue more shares and my understanding is that they have a 1 year lock. I agree an etf would create a more efficient market.
Good thing I have fuck all in my TD account. SO I don't have the chance of getting margin called and more fucked. Have you seen the premium on GBTC? There will always be a premium even for an ETF. Acquiring, securing and managing Bitcoin at a significant level will always be a bit of a managed service. Sure competition will reduce the premium, I admit but not as much as you seem to think. Buying Bitcoin is incredibly easy if you know how. For those wondering what futures are, just watch 'Trading Places' and concentrate on the last half hour.
Its also a Christmas Movie! HODL, moons, and lambos are the memes and are translated to normie speak as "if you save your money and don't spend it all at once, one day when you are ready to retire your k and retirement fund will allow you to live out your days in comfort. I liked btc before it went mainstream. Something about it being a niche underground thing made it more "personal" for us. I used to like bitcoin before it sold out and went corporate. So, is this a big deal considering the futures bitcoin market already exist?
This is just giving more people access to the already existing futures product produced by CBOE. Remember none of these people are buying fractions of bitcoins. It starts at 18k. I know on-chain will always be better security than off-chain if buying a house or car. Is this just a power struggle which will ultimately destroy bitcoin with promises that the lightning network is coming soon?
Someone smarter than me reply. The lightning network isn't being pushed back by years; people invested in Bitcoin Cash have been spreading FUD about it. LN is already being tested on the main network and should be ready early next year. The nodes have all the power already.
No wonder everyone is so suspicuous of tether. It's a Gox scenario waiting to unfold but worse because they don't have any actual USD on hand without depleting their coffer and resorting to selling custodial BTC to cover including cashing out customers in BTC to off exchange BTC wallets. I want to say ponzi or pyramid but without a proper audit nobody really knows. It's a house of cards imo. I don't disagree, but i'm more curious to see what happens when CME goes live.
CBOE is kinda irrelevant in terms of contract sizing and general market share but they're trying to capture the crypto futures market by jumping the gun on CME. I welcome volatility, it will shake the noobs out, make them scared. Most of us just hold and smile. I think many future traders won't be ready the way btc moves and will get margin called and rekt. It will be fun times. The path of least resistance is still up and richard heart thinks we hit 20k by end of the year, once wall street enters, and I tend to agree with him.
The 'getting rekt' on futures doesn't really apply, it will be mainly institutional investors who absolutely know what they're doing, especially when CME is live. If retail investors are entering the futures markets Best chance for them to be in the market is before CME goes up and the big boys really come out. CBOE is angling to be more retail oriented anyway because they know they can't compete at the highest level with CME's base. What is to stop someone from doing the short scenario you described?
Maybe you should go read the futures contracts before you make uneducated statements: There are breakers on the futures. Lots of the hedge funds I know getting into crypto are really great at High Frequency Trading, which is also the type of investment approach that's set to benefit from crazy price swings.
I think most of these futures contracts will be bear-ish about BTC. Fear of missing out. Historically in BTC this has been very true. Thanks for the reply dude. Was following along the conversation there you seem to know your shit not that I have any standing ground to say one way or the other. Just trying to gather as much information as I can. The higher the price of BTC gets, the harder and more risk there is to short bitcoin. Also the price drop was most likely due to bitcoin hitting 10, in eruos.
We are starting to see though that the hodl is strong in bitcoin though. Don't forget Gemini is the Winklevoss twins, seems they have a sore spot about being first to market I'm not sure if this will be good or bad for actual Bitcoin price itself yet. I keep hearing first that it is finally an opportunity to short Bitcoin. Gold price has been carefully controlled by central banks the world over for many years, through orchestrating the supply and production as well as the creation of a paper gold future derivative in the 70s.
It's immensely more difficult to short a decentralized asset such as Bitcoin, particularly without the assistance of 'fractional-reserve' finance, where only a small fraction of the underlying assets have to be held.
Literally like 3 mouse clicks. Every time you buy a BTC someone had to sell to you for the price you bought it at. Someone hedging coins they hold would take the short position, not the long. Someone would take the long if they wanted to lock in an a BTC price i.
No one ever said you were required to hedge a long position to trade a futures contract. You were saying someone could be on the other side of a short meaning: All I'm saying is that going long futures does the opposite of hedging an existing long in the underlying.
It simple adds long exposure. Someone would go short futures to hedge coins they have. Where can one short bitcoin using a highly-trusted, institutionally-recognized platform?
Are you blind or illiterate? This is the comment I was responding to. Sorry if you have trouble keeping up. Futures Index trading is only in dollars, and not connected to the actual bitcoin price by any mechanism whatsoever.
Only FUD can make the bitcoin price go down. The MSM is probably going to try very hard to conflate the futures with the price of bitcoin; they may start reporting on the futures prices and stop reporting on the actual bitcoin price.
Do not let any of that fool you. They want to "tame" bitcoin with FUD and make all the money over at the commodities exchange and stop the bitcoin rocket. But I say they can't and it will fail. Educate as many people as you can that the futures is not connected to bitcoin; it's a sideshow for wall street only. This is a very ignorant viewpoint. I've been waiting for a good time to buy in since 10k but I'm really worried about buying in before the futures market opens because of the possibility of a short.
It's a technology S-curve that's being adopted. This isn't pork bellies. No, people are insane. The craze has hit grandma level and truck driver level and stripper level. The absurd rush to buy BTC in the past several months has driven primarily ignorant buyers jntk the market.
Everyone who actually knows what it is already owned it. That's a pretty high amount. I don't even think that percentage of people holding the US dollar can explain to you what fiat is. No actually I think it biases it towards a rally, however, when things do drop people panic and jump out of the market immediately because they have no idea what they're doing. You see this on the sub all the time. Yeah, when I first started trading I set stop losses below price.
Now I place buy orders! But you have to either add new fiat not gonna happen or sell at the highs. For my alts it's more complicated. Probably go to USDT for a couple hours if needed but that is a risk as well.
Just a heads up, I was doing some number crunching on this earlier and over the past 6 months XMR is actually more negatively correlated with BTC This is even more true when you look at the past month: They would have to buy it before they sell it on Gemini.
That won't result in a downward price action overall. Only one exchange matters in this case because it is the only exchange CBOE is using to determine what price their futures are based on. All even semi relevant funds are well aware. Buying and selling contracts can't go back and manipulate bitcoin.
Whales have already been in bitcoin. The more whales come in and out of bitcoin, the bigger the market cap will be at any given moment. Oh, I know they've been buying. I just know that they don't understand the fundamentals of crypto and think that it's like everything else. For one, I think that they think they are the only ones that will be on the market. They don't realize that there are other companies ready to buy cheap coins. And there are Japanese and Korean buyers ready to buy cheap coins.
These people are vastly more intelligent than you think they are, just FYI. I promise you that any semi important firm has spent more money researching this than you have ever made up till now, and they know more than you know.
Because this is literally their job. Can someone explain how futures could affect the price of real Bitcoin since it doesn't even involve real Bitcoin and doesn't have to be settled in real Bitcoin? How does a play money market affect the real market? Hopefully there will be more money coming in than anyone can possibly imagine and the price will shoot to the moon. I mean, I have set sell points, so my coins aren't for sale unless those numbers are reached. And I buy back if we reach certain plateaus, making me even more money.
I'm in a can't-lose scenario so let them play their little games. I know bittrex just made theirs 28 days max and they get cancelled. I wasnt sure what gdax was. Its like a Horse race, if no gambling is allowed nobody cares If you can gamble on the Horse race, and it is easy to manipulate the race, people will. Khan Academy's YouTube video which helped me understand futures contract: The CME website also has an educational section with a complete multi-video course on futures.
Time to get educated. If it is, you "win" becuase you bought something worth over 10K for only 10K. The person on the other end is betting that its going to be worth less. Generally futures are leveraged.
So, basically you get 50x the profits or 50x the losses than you would just normally holding the same bitcoin. You can hedge your coins and buy the underlying product. But still not worth it unless you know what you are doing. Financially there is no difference except the risk entailed in holding crypto securely. Seems like you'll go bankrupt basing an entire company around Bitcoin losing value in the near future. When you're making a "bet" that it's gonna go up, someone else has to take that "bet" thinking it's gonna go down.
Ohh they're just a middle man, not like, a bank or gambling agency or something, I get you now. The contracts are single sized, not negotiable. Will the market have that much liquidity? Keep in mind, doing this would still be very dangerous. An equally large or larger fund could just sit on Gemini soaking up all your sell orders resulting in very little price movement, but that would essentially have to be premeditated or a coordinated effort to keep the price stable.
I don't think these guys understand how many people are in bitcoin all over the world and believe in it long-term. And yes, I am aware where BTCs cap sits. It sounds they are asking for trouble, by using just one exchange Gemini to provide reference price. Gemini has quite frequent once per week downtime, sometimes more than 8 hours due to "server maintenance". They should use a weighted average of several exchanges. But I think all the long-time bitcoin users are going to arbitrage this to death and make a killing.
No way, holders should stay away from this unless they have deep enough USD pockets to defend their positions. We're going to see crazy swings. Now all these Wall Street people who are convinced it's a bubble that's about the burst will be able to massively short bitcoin, destroying the price gains we've seen over the last year.
How is this a good thing? For BTC price to drop, there needs to be a large sell-off. As long as there are enough people who believe in bitcoin's value, if the price drops, the lower priced bitcoins will all be purchased at a bargain price.
So for someone to manipulate the market and win at shorting, they first need to 1 Buy enough bitcoin to affect global prices; 2 Sell it all off suddenly at a lower price; 3 Hope that not too many people buy it, and the price drops enough for them to fulfill their short position. If their calculations are off, they end up losing more than if they had just held the bitcoin they owned. How exactly will they massively short Bitcoin?
I keep seeing this sentiment but have never seen a strong supporting argument that shows the steps in detail. A friend of mine is planning on pulling out half of her Bitcoin Saturday night in the event that the Market crashes on Sunday as a result of a major sell-off people trying to cash in , then reinvesting on Monday.
Do you think this is a good strategy, or not? I will be selling my bitcoin right before 10th.